Democrats Now Realize Stimulus Will Fall Short
by Big Dog on Mar 14, 2009 at 17:30 Political
The Democrats passed a spending bill that will end up costing more than a trillion dollars and in the run up to it they made a lot of claims as to why it was necessary. Obama said it had to be done immediately and promised that it would create or save (fraud alert: no one can measure a saved job) millions of jobs and that it would stimulate the economy. This monster passed even though many Republicans opposed it and said that it was full of wasteful spending. The bill was nicknamed the Porkulus bill.
The economy is not in crisis but it is in a tough down turn. The reality is that we could have done NO spending and the economy would recover. It would recover much faster if the government took a bold step and reduced the corporate tax to zero for a year and then brought it up by half at the end of the year. If we reduced capital gains to zero for a year and then brought them up to half it would have a big impact as well. If government felt it had to intervene it would have done better to have a smaller spending program with items that would provide immediate impact. Instead it went for a monster saying it was necessary to avoid a crash we could not get out of. After it was all done they started to lower expectations as to how long it will be to see a difference and then Obama said it really wasn’t as bad as he thought. They can’t cut taxes or follow what Republicans say because if it works they are done.
Now they are in a bind. The Republicans have been saying that the porkulus was full of political payoffs. It was full of things that will not stimulate the economy or create jobs and it was passed using the crisis to get it through with the purpose of making political payoff. All of this is an accurate assessment. The public is none too happy about the continuing loss of jobs and the slide of the stock market, Obama’s poll, and they are starting to get the message.
Democrats are seeing the different polls indicating that economists give Obama a failing grade and the online poll at MSNBC that gives him an F for what he has done so far. Obama and the Democrats have been saying that another stimulus might be needed but the public is not buying it. They know that the last one has not had time to work and that nothing should be passed until we see how this abortion is going to end up.
But the Dems, who backtracked on the second stimulus (at least publicly) really want to pass another one. They want to pass one with items that will affect the economy and jobs more quickly. They want to do what Republicans wanted to do the last time. They want to do this because they know the first bill will not provide what they promised and they need to do something to deliver or they will be toast.
Say no to a second stimulus. They said this one would work and Obama said it had to be enacted right away and then they said it might take a while. Well then we wait a while and not throw more money at this problem. We wait and see if what they said pans out. If that means they have to wait until next year then so be it.
They forced us to spend the money and now they are not going to use more of our money to cover their ineptitude and failures.
No more money on stimulus packages.
[tip]If you enjoy what you read consider signing up to receive email notification of new posts. There are several options in the sidebar and I am sure you can find one that suits you. If you prefer, consider adding this site to your favorite feed reader. If you receive emails and wish to stop them follow the instructions included in the email.[/tip]
Tags: Democrats, jobs, lies, Obama, payoff, porkulus, spending
Whatever happened to government of the people, by the people and for the people? Our voices are entirely ignored, but believe me, come next election, I will not vote for any Democrat. If everyone woke up and did this, that would end our problems.
Your voice is ignored because you voted for the loser of the election. See W’s “Political Capital” speech. Nobody expects you to vote for a Dem, Barbara. Keep on hatin’, sista!
2010 could be a very fun year. I know I’m looking forward to the possibility of Reid getting voted out.
Who’s gonna beat him, Jon Porter? Get a grip. He almost lost his seat in the House last go around.
You are not in the mainstream of thought on the economy and on the stimulus bill. You keep thinking your ideas are backed up by reality or at least public opinion but you have neither.
They want to do “this” because estimates for job loss and economic decline were far off. Things are much worse than economists have been able to predict so far. When the stimulus bill was planned they estimated unemployment to be on average this year what it already has become in the first few months of the year and it’s still getting worse.
Unemployment is going to continue to drop for some time and so is the stock market. I think most people understand it is not Obama’s fault despite the Republicans cropping graphs to make it look like the decline started when Obama was elected. Polls back up that notion. The people aren’t as dumb as you say just because they voted for a guy you hate. Polls also show the public views the Republicans as having no plan, only opposition.
Any Republican looking forward to 2010 hasn’t seen the state of their party lately. But if the Dems could bounce back from massive failure election in 2002 and 2004 to sweeping victories in 2006 and 2008 then the Republicans can do the same. So far I’m not seeing much movement in the party considering they’re already wanting to sack their new party leadership while they continue to make their unofficial leader an un-popular blowhard like Rush Limbaugh.
It would help if Republicans started to acknowledge the economy is not just in a “tough down turn” and that it will take more than tax cuts or leaving it alone to get America back on track. You have even said things like: “You do not get out of debt by spending more.” It’s not hard for me to imagine you misunderstanding the full depth of trouble our economy is in when you are still treating our problems as if it’s the debt that is the issue and not negative GDP growth.
Also on another post you told the following whopper of a lie:
Let’s take a look at the following graphs showing unemployment at that time:
Graph 1
Graph 2
Graph 3
FDR took office in 1933. You are right that unemployment didn’t go down until the war….except for in 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1939, 1940, 1941. That’s right. For 7 of the 13 or so years between the Great Depression and when the US entered WWII, unemployment declined. Even if you mean when the war started instead of when the US entered the war you are still wrong.
Adam, how do they define employment on those slides? Most people who went to work worked fewer hours. It is like defining homeless as having slept on the street once in a year.
They can say they created jobs but that did not happen. Unemployment remained high. Though to be fair I should have said went down to where they predicted until the war. The government had many things in place but to say that because they gave people 10 hours of work a week that they were employed is ridiculous.
But like I said, it should have said never went down to what they predicted.
As for understanding the economy. Get real. You say that GDP went up. GDP involves several items for the calculation and one of them is government spending which skyrocketed so the GDP went up. The other items stayed the same or went down a little so there was no real GDP growth just one that was artificial because of huge amounts of taxpayer money injected.
Read this to see how it really is
And you should try the Wall Street Journal for the unemployment picture under FDR.
And Adam, it has nothing to do with me liking this guy or not. History shows us this does not work. You keep saying that the American public supports it but the reality is the public supports some type of government intervention but does not support this kind of spending. If they only polled the people who actually pay taxes the numbers would be much higher. I mean, who cares if people who don’t pay taxes support it. They have no say in the matter because they will not have to pay for it.
I understand GDP and you can’t artificially inflate it with massive government spending and expect things to be OK. That is no different than the fed manipulating interest rates to stave off a recession. Eventually it will catch up to you which is what it has done now.
Allowing people to spend their own money and keeping taxes low. EVERY time taxes are cut the revenue to the treasury increase. EVERY TIME.
If you want more money in then cut corporate taxes and cut the capital gains. Keep personal income taxes low and there will be tons of money injected into the economy.
It does not matter. No matter what happens you guys will say it was a success. The reality is, one must look at it all. If some jobs are created but it costs 300k per job, was it worth it?
Republicans had plans and they were ignored. Remember, Obama told them he won.
Fine but now it is all in his lap and that is why they want the second stimulus. They want to do things that will make a faster impact, now that they have paid off their buddies.
I am not paying anymore. I don’t care. I refuse to pay more than I am currently paying and I don’t care who gets thrown out of their house. Let them FAIL and they can learn.
Not my job to take care of them and I don’t intend to.
Here’s another graph for your viewing pleasure. Not only did unemployment steadily drop under FDR (except in 1937-1938), GDP grew as well.
The way to stimulate the economy is easy, Stupids.
Put money in The Peoples’ hands and let them spend it on things they want.
The easiest way to do that is to cut taxes, grant a tax holiday, support the Fair Tax.
http://zaptheirs.ning.com/
Adam-
Dog’s understanding of economics is limited, to say the least. You’re wasting your time. He’s too busy planning his “revolution” to bother with real numbers, charts and graphs.
I have had enough of you and this revolution crap you keep attributing to me. I have had enough of your calling my commenters and friends names and degrading them.
You are not allowed to use the word revolution here again in any context. And there will be no more distortion of people’s names.
As for my knowledge about anything Bunny, you can suck my ass. I have had enough of your ghetto attitude nastiness here. I have given you enough rope and you continually harass the people here.
It ends now. And that is not a request. Understand bunky (and that is what I meant to write)?
As for you Adam,a chart is worthless if the information on it is worthless. The fact is the GDP was artificial and the unemployment remained high for nearly a decade and did not go to where they said it would.
Believe what you want Adam. The history says something different and I am tired of arguing with people who matter little to me. Believe what you want. But Adam, a lie is an intentional act. To call me a liar for not clearly communicating something is hypocritical for you considering you say every instance of an Obama lie is a misinterpretation or he meant something else.
I expected something better from you but I now know the standard so when you say you made a mistake here with something you wrote then we all can say it was a lie, a deliberate act, right?
You’re the one who warned of the coming (rhymes with retribution). And your commenters and friends call me plenty of names, which doesn’t seem to bother you. Have you issued this warning to Sgt. Harry or hdork? Of course not.
Face it Dog, you just can’t stand the heat.
Do you remember when you first started this mess and we communicated by email to discuss it in private? You are making assumptions about things. However, you attacked these people. Did you expect them to ignore you?
Also, warning about a revolution or saying that one might be needed is hardly the same as planning for one. I am not planning any such thing and your constant claim that I am is a lie.
What heat? You are insignificant in the over all scheme of things. You have absolutely no influence in my life and nothing you do will ever affect me. You are worth little to me and I care little about you. How could you apply heat. If I could not stand any heat you would be gone without warning. I don’t care if you debate, I care that you attack people personally and expect them to think it is cute.
You are displaying that you have no regard for the rules and you fail to understand that what I say goes as far as this site is concerned.
Nope, wrong again. hdork attacked me first.
I think you are right to some degree about the GDP growing with government spending. The spending part of the GDP equation is a bit more complicated than that however or we’d never have a recession because we always spend so much but GDP still has negative growth.
Not all government spending is the same with military spending being a good example of how potent some kinds can be for GDP growth but I digress. But my point is only that unemployment declined and GDP went up before the war. I accept your takeback on the unemployment claim because I won’t try and act like employment was so great then or that the depression was over yet until WW II. It’s just off base to say FDR caused the great depression or his policies didn’t help at all or and only the war got us out of it.
In the graphics you can clearly see indicators showing things would have been fine in time without the war and that FDR’s policies were contributing to a bounce back from the depression. The war just made everything better faster is all.
The problem with graphs and charts and stats in general is that they can be easily manipulated by each individual to show what you want. Raw data (and lots of it) is necessary to make any reasonable determinations, IMHO.
As for bunny, here here BD. He has been nothing but “hatin” and attacking since he came on here and given nothing of substance that I can find. This ghetto style communication is so below your standards.