How Long Before It Comes To America?
by Big Dog on Sep 3, 2009 at 05:10 Political
The debate about the health care overhaul bill continues as more Americans voice their opposition to the plan that will allow the government to take over about 17% of our GDP. The government is interested in taking control of health care because then it will control our lives. The bill is not about health and it is not about care. Government has a couple of things in mind besides health and care.
The government wants to control your access to health care. Politicians are lying to you when they say that you can keep your plan if you like it. You can keep it until you need to change (whether you change jobs or your employer drops coverage in favor of government care) and then you will be stuck with the government plan where some bean counter gets to decide if you are treated. This is about controlling people like the government does with Social Security. The elderly are trapped in that system and are at the mercy of politicians who have spent all the money paid into it. It is going broke and there is no trust fund. Today’s workers are paying for today’s retirees. There will be no money left in the very near future.
The government will soon run out of all that Social Security money to confiscate and back with worthless paper so it needs a new source of income. You have heard them say how much money insurance companies make. The government wants to put them out of business and take that money in so it will have more to spend while rationing care.
Remember, the goal is for them to get single payer health care. Obama has said that this is his goal and that it might take 15 or 20 years but that is what he wants. Many other Democrats are on record as saying that they want single payer and that the way to get it is by passing a health care bill that they can use to get us there. This is why they are scaling back. They can say that the government option is off the table but they have said they can get things incrementally. They will get some sort of bill passed and then keep adding to it until they get what they want, complete control. Control of health care is a major way for government to gain more control over YOU.
Do we really want government types making decisions about our health? What about end of life? Do we really want government types forcing end of life decisions on us? That is what will result if we are forced to receive end of life counseling upon reaching 65 (an age where we are not old enough to draw Social Security). If they can steer us toward death then they can save health care dollars and Social Security payments.
Right now, each of us has the right to decide our end of life desires. We can decide to have food or water withheld and which medications, if any, we are to receive as well as the procedures that we do or do not want performed. Once government is involved a bureaucrat will be guiding people in that process and those who are vulnerable will be moved to taking decisions they might not actually want. Doctors will be rated by how well they are doing in this area so they will have incentive to move folks toward death.
Once health care is under government control there will be nothing stopping government from actually taking those decisions for us. They can simply pass a bill that changes health care and allows someone else to decide your end of life issues. Think that can’t happen? Look at what is happening in the United Kingdom:
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away. Telegraph UK
There is a pathway in the UK health system that allows clinicians to decide if a person is near end of life and then withhold food, water and medication and keep the person sedated until he dies. People can become dehydrated and get confused and be taken to the hospital where, using the pathway, it can be decided that the person is near end of life and care withheld. Sedating drugs can mask recovery so people who would otherwise recover die because the sedation keeps them from showing signs of improvement.
It is not a leap to say that we could go from mandatory counseling (the word shall means it is mandatory) where people are guided to death to a system where the decisions are made for them. It will not matter if the decisions are in the best interest of the patient and it will not matter what the patient or his family want because the government will mandate the decision.
The UK has had government run health care for a long time but this pathway has only been around since 2004. This means that government changed the health care delivery to include a pathway that takes end of life decisions away from the patient and the patient’s family.
Once government gets its claws into the flesh of health care it will continue to dig deeper and deeper until it runs everything and makes all the decisions. Remember, Obama has appointed people to positions that will decide for you. They are people who have long histories of advocating allowing people to die rather than extending lives. They have histories of advancing Euthanasia. They are on the record stating that the elderly will have to deal with their fate. They are on the record as wanting to advance principles where life is given unequal value based upon age and condition. The elderly, handicapped and mentally ill are not worth as much to them as the young and healthy.
Is this what we want in this country? Do we want government controlling health care and our lives? Do we want the government to have the power to decide if we live or die? Do we want a complete overhaul of the system so that we can include the very small percentage of people who have no insurance?
If this were about health care and reform then Obama would have voted for reform all those times he had the chance in the Senate. He did not want reform and neither do the rest fo the Democrats. They want control. If it were about fixing what is broken then they would not be scrapping what works and replacing it. They want control.
It is time to wake up America. Do not let them pass any kind of health care overhaul. They will work to add to it and take control of your life.
Stand up and be counted.
Your life depends on it.
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Tags: control, Democrats, government system, health care reform, lies, Obama, overhaul, single payer
This is not about healthcare- Hussein and his dogs have shown that they are supremely disinterested in our welfare- it is all about control- these are little Hug Chavezes- Chavettes (Chavezlettes?) Who just want to make sure they retain control, and they think that if they negate the Constitution enough, perhaps we can forego all those pesky things like elections.
This is no longer about “If you like your Healthcare you can keep it”, but “If you love your country the way it has been, you will have to fight for it now”- It has been a long time since we have faced an enemy (domestic variety) who wanted to destroy or country as badly as these people do.
When you have life-long Democrats like Pat Caddell asking, “My God, What do they think they are doing”, you have trouble with a capital “T”.
Almost every single sentence in your post is a lie or profound distortion. And that’s really hard to do. I’ll roast it to a crisp, later.
D.
I am sure you will write a lot of tripe but you will only show a differing opinion. These are not lies or distortions, they are reports from the country that has the problem.
I’ll roast it to a crisp, later.
D.
Please spare us. We already know how deluded and disagreeable you are.
Bigd: Americans voice their opposition to the plan that will allow the government to take over about 17% of our GDP.>>
DAR
Utterly false. You are confusing *total* healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP with *Government* spending as a percentage of GDP. These are different things.
Bigd: The government is interested in taking control of health care because then it will control our lives.>>
DAR
Fear mongering garbage. No country has “complete control” of health care. Even Canada which is often mistakenly referred to as socialized, has PRIVATE doctors. It’s the insurance system that is socialized. Likewise, other countries have much more competition than we have in many areas (i.e. Japan has more private for profit hospitals than the US, docs are private and competition is fierce). Etc.
Bigd: The bill is not about health and it is not about care.>>
DAR
The bill is about both, obviously, and it’s also about controlling costs. In the 70’s Nixon complained that healthcare was 7% of GDP. Now it’s pushing 18%. Shall we wait until we are spending 25%? I don’t think so. We can’t afford it. We have Bush’s wars to pay China back for.
Bigd: The government wants to control your access to health care.>>
DAR
No. The nation wants everyone to have access to health care. According to the most prestigious scientific organization in the country, The National Academy Science, 20,000 Americans die because they don’t have access to care. This is a DISGRACE. It is immoral. It should be unamerican. The world looks on at this side show in amazement.
The US is the only nation in the modern industrialized world, among other free-market democracies that:
1) Doesn’t cover every citizen in their basic health care needs,
2) Has a system that if you lose your job, you can lose your health insurance (just when you need it the most)
3) Makes a PROFIT on the basic health care needs of its citizens, to the point where people can’t afford it
4) where insurance providers/companies can cherry-pick and deny coverage because of preexisting conditions and can CANCEL your current insurance.
Bigd: Politicians are lying to you when they say that you can keep your plan if you like it.>>
DAR
No they aren’t. Even socialized Britain allows private insurance and private doctors. As does Germany. You don’t know what you are talking about.
Bigd: “There will be no money left [SS] in the very near future.>>
DAR
False. Minor adjustments, made many times before, will make it solvent for decades. Medicare, is another story.
Bigd: The government… needs a new source of income.>>
DAR
Or, a way to control costs. We spend more and get crappy results. All of our peer countries are kicking America’s butt.
Bigd: Remember, the goal is for them to get single payer health care.>>
DAR
That’s false. It’s not even being considered. Even though it is the best (Taiwan studied the systems extensively and went with single payer, no rationing, 2% administration). Canadian politicians passed their system unanimously. It gets better results, for 1/3 less, covers everyone, no bankruptcies and higher satisfaction. That’s a win and it’s not even close.
Bigd: Control of health care is a major way for government to gain more control over YOU.>>
DAR
Health care needs to cover all citizens. The current US system of turning away the sick is unchristian, unamerican and immoral.
Bigd: Do we really want government types forcing end of life decisions on us?>>
DAR
Another lie. People should have the option of end of life counseling and how to make very important living will decisions. They should also be encouraged to have wills. When people die without a will, as they often do, they leave a mess for the state to clean up.
Bigd: The UK has had government run health care for a long time…>>
DAR
Right. Let’s jolly well talk about the UK a bit.
Full coverage, no bills.
1/3 of the cost to deliver.
Better recovery rates than the US from most major illnesses.
Private insurance and doc’s available but only 3% both to use this since they are happy with the National Health Service.
85% of RX is covered.
Administration is 1/3 of US. One of the most efficient systems.
Doc’s are private.
malpractice is about 1/12th of US cost.
The US system of rationing and denying care to the poor is immoral
Britain’s coverage for all, works very well.
Bigd: Obama has appointed people… who have long histories of advocating allowing people to die rather than extending lives.>>
DAR
A disgusting and shameless lie.
Bigd: The elderly, handicapped and mentally ill are not worth as much to them as the young and healthy.>>
DAR
You know who isn’t worth anything in the US? People without money or insurance. 45 million of them. This is immoral.
Bigd: Do we want a complete overhaul of the system so that we can include the very small percentage of people who have no insurance?>>
DAR
Yes we do:
“…85 percent of respondents said the health care system needed to be fundamentally changed or completely rebuilt,”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html
85% is a very strong majority.
Hey, if you lay 48 million people end to end do you know how far they extend? Around the planet, twice. Only in your rightwing la la land is that in any way “small.”
D.
THAT is roasting to a crisp? Hell, that’s a lot of wind- are you Hurricane Darrel?
Only in your lala land do we have 46- not 48- your number keeps growing -million people.
First, its not even remotely 46 million people- when you take out the illegals, and subtract the young people who want to use their money for other things, you are left with perhaps 17- 20 million people, so lets use a truer number here.
No- we do NOT want, nor need a complete overhaul of a system that despite your cherrypicking numbers, has worked fairly well, at least as compared to Canuk or Brit medicine-
And Zeke Emanuel has advocating judging the worth of people’s lives, as has Sunstein and Holdren so don’t lie here- there’s documentation.
Now we could have tort reform, but Nobamer doesn’t want to tick off the Law profession, after all he says he is one.
It is a disgrace that we do not cover everyone, the only industrialized nation not to do so.
We are a free nation and you are free to choose if you want care or not. Those who do and cannot afford it can get care and have it covered under the myriad of programs available.
We are a terrible nation that ended two world wars, put a man on the moon, invented the computer, the internet, and the iPhone among millions of other life saving equipment and drugs.
There are probably closer to 12 million who do not have and truly cannot afford health care and there are programs for them.
Get rid of the illegals and eliminate nonsense from the requirements in the insurance plans and more people could afford it.
But the bottom line is that a free person is FREE to choose not to have coverage.
Quite enjoyable to hear the old accent again.
Canadians talking about their health care. They look to the south and try to understand, but it is difficult for them. They dealt with this problem in 1966, the year I was born.
Just a few minutes. Give it a shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFX32Ed7ZQ
Blurb:
“In the spirit of truth, my friend Matte Black (@Shoq on Twitter) and his brother took their video camera to Canada on vacation to interview Canadians about their health care system. When we talked about it, I asked him to try to get negative views with specifics for balance. Here is the result. It has been edited for brevity, but the negative views were not removed, because there were none. He could not find one Canadian who thought they should kill the system.” Link.
Ancedotal.
I suppose all the news stories where they do find Canadians who want to scrap the system or where people in the medical profession say it is not good or politicians say it is running out of money or costing too much are not as important as two schmoes with a camera playing Michael Moore…
Bigd: Ancedotal.>>
DAR
Absolutely. And completely consistent with my experience.
Bigd: I suppose all the news stories where they do find Canadians who want to scrap>>
DAR
This number is in the single digits, at most. When support for something as important and controversial as health, in a thriving democracy, is in the 90+ range, this means it is a smashing success.
Bigd: people in the medical profession say it is not good>>
DAR
You will always have some of those. The US system is so bad now, that about half of US *doctors* want single payer. They can’t take it any more.
http://www.madashelldoctors.com/
Bigd: or politicians say it is running out of money or costing too>>
DAR
Heathcare systems always want more money. No exceptions.
Bigd: not as important as two schmoes with a camera…>>
DAR
Not at all. One should look to the best most comprehensive scientific analysis of these matters, which I have already done.
This was just a bonus to add a little flavor.
What you don’t seem to grasp, like many Americans, is that the US system is so broken that people in other countries struggle to understand why the world’s richest country has allowed it to get this way.
D.
Most comprehensive analysis in your opinion and with an agenda.
Bigd: “Most comprehensive analysis in your opinion and with an agenda.”>>
DAR
The analysis I referred to, “the most comprehensive study that was ever under taken on the two health care systems…” was conducted jointly by an American and a Canadian university.
When you don’t like the message, blame the messenger.
D.
Let’s assume for a minute that the Canadian health system is good for Canada. That does not mean it will be good for the U.S. The demographics and immigrant population is so very different. Take the largest city in Darrel’s home province, Vancouver. It is 46% Asian and some are very wealthy. Meanwhile the U.S. has tens of thousands of illegals with little or no money and are a drain on our healthcare system. One size does not fit all.
Nor should it- illegals should not be covered at all- it is a privilege that should be reserved for citizens- the illegals use up resources meant for citizens, and in these days, resources are stretched to the limit.
There just aren’t enough in the way of resources, and the country of origin should pay.
If you want truly ‘Universal” coverage, you would have to have other countries sign on to pay the costs of their workers here- where the costs do not fall on the American citizen.
There should be more of an uproar than there is. When you think that some illegal is using the care that might be needed to save the life of your son or daughter, then it becomes personal.