Obama Cuts Defense and Adds Illegals
by Big Dog on Apr 9, 2009 at 00:31 Immigration, Military, Political
I have had a go around with several people who claim that Resident Obama is actually increasing Defense spending. It is true that Obama has increased the budget 4% but he took the war funding, which was not part of the Defense budget (it was funded from other sources) and placed it under Defense but the money did not go with it. This means that The DOD will have a budget cut.
As has been reported, the 4% increase in defense spending proposed by Secretary Gates is actually 4% less than what the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted; and, if taken alongside the fact that this budget attempts to fold in spending previously funded by supplemental war budgets, the supposed 4% increase is actually a $8 billion cut in defense spending. The Army is worst hit by folding supplemental spending into the base budget, as it was receiving the most ad-hoc funding for Iraq and Afghanistan. Ace of Spades
Ace goes on to explain this for those who care to look at it. It is easy to understand but in DC math this is considered a budget increase. It definitely is NOT.
While all the grenades are being lobbed around by the bumbler in chief, he continues to throw so many things at the public that it cannot keep up. On top of the economy, the omnibus, the trillions in spending, the 90% taxes to punish people whose contracts were honored, Iranian rockets, North Korean missilesm bows to kings, ACORN and the census, shooting pollution into the sky to cool the planet and all the other distractions, Obama is now ready to make millions of ILLEGALS into citizens.
Drudge is reporting that the New York Times will have a page 1 story tomorrow on Obama’s plan:
IMMIGRATION BILL THIS YEAR: Obama to begin looking for illegal immigrants to become legal, NY TIMES planning to lead in Page Ones on Thursday, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE… Developing…
It is time to gear up for a big fight. We cannot allow millions of lawbreakers to become citizens. They broke the law and we need to get rid of them when we find them. We cannot afford to have these blood sucking leeches be rewarded for breaking the law. You get more of what you reward and if we reward these people with citizenship then we will get more and more ILLEGALS coming here expecting the same deal. The amnesty that was provided two times before was billed as necessary to take care of the problem and it would never have to happen again. Now we are looking at millions more becoming citizens, being rewarded for breaking the law.
I read somewhere that immigrant groups (the ones that work hard to help illegals) had John McCain at some meeting looking for his help on this issue. I remember that they all left without a warm and fuzzy feeling because McCain indicated they were on their own. I believe he told them that they made their choice by picking Obama and they needed to go to him for what they wanted.
If I am not mistaken, McCain was basically telling them that he put his neck out for them during the last amnesty debate and bucked his own party which ended up costing him political capital. His message was, I was there for you and in the election you overwhelmingly supported Obama so go ask him for help, don’t come to me.
If that is true then maybe McCain finally got the message. We need to be tough on this. Pay close attention because this is all about politics. Democrats want to increase the number of votes they receive and they can do that by rewarding ILLEGALS with citizenship. Any member who votes for this needs to be voted out of office in 2010. They need to know that is what their vote will cost them.
We will see how this pans out when the NYT publishes the article.
Related:
Flopping Aces
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Tags: amnesty, cuts, defense, illegals, McCain, Obama, war
Raaaaaaaaacist!(Just being sarcastic Dog)
God help us!
I think we should all take a moment and actually read the budget:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/fy2010_new_era/Department_of_Defense.pdf
For all that don’t know, the GWOT is now referred to as Overseas Contingency Operations. Yes, I think that is silly. However, they (war spending and regular budgeting) are very clearly separated in the budget, and there is an increase in spending whether you consider the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or not.
Ace of Spades is so clearly wrong.
Randy, contingency operation include the wars among other things. The budget is a cut. Obama has proposed a budget that is less than 4% of GDP which will not sustain the military. The wars were wrapped into the budget but I notice the wars are shown as additional funding on top of the defense budget. It is also true that this is a proposed budget but Obama has taken a parliamentary maneuver that will cut defense spending by pushing the budget off until May. This menas that the defense budget will be on a continuing resolution which is funded at its current rate.
This year’s budget will actually be 662.6 because he is asking for more than $75b for the war as reported here. That means next year is 1.1billion more than this year IF he gets the 130 billion for the war (which I do not think he will).
Here is a piece from the Heritage Foundation describing the cut.
Here is a piece from the Federal Times describing the delay and what it will likely mean.
The proposed budget is 1.1 billion more. I don’t think he will get 130 billion for the war. The rate is not high enough to sustain. He took the same tact Clinton did.
But that’s not what you and Ace of Spades said in the original post. Ace of Spades even went as far as to fudge some of the language from a post to which he or she or they linked to make the cuts to PROPOSED spending seem exceedingly dastardly.
The Heritage Foundation is playing games with the numbers. I will show you how tomorrow after I get some much needed sleep. The Federal times piece is well, simply speculating.
I’ll never understand the total lack of mercy from conservatives on illegal immigration. Apparently for conservatives there is no weighing of what these illegals contribute to our country. Conservatives seem to just focus 100% on the worst cases where illegals hurt or kill somebody or suck up social resources.
There are certainly bad cases but the truth is the vast majority of illegals pay taxes, work hard to provide for their family, and use fewer social services than the average American. That is what America stands for to me in a nutshell.
So why punish these folks and send them home when they are trying to live the American dream and contributing to our country as much as any of us but they just aren’t here legally?
It’s either deportation or nothing for Conservatives and I just don’t get that. I get that they broke the law but at what point do you weigh your actions on a moral scale:
1. Use raids and agressive police action to send these folks home, break up many families, take away their jobs and their earnings and send them back to their country of origin.
2. Give them amnesty, make them come forward and pay a fine, pay any back taxes, and place them on a sort of probation where if they aren’t living responsibly in the US we remove them just like we would any legal immigrant.
Conservatives act like no legal American has ever broken the law, made mistakes or errors in judgment, been allowed to pay for that mistake through a reasonably fair justice system. I say give the illegals the same chance because mass deportation is the greater of two evils.
Adam, You have not studied illegal as I have- I have worked alongside them for a long time, and I like them, but what part of illegal do you not understand?
In the trades, Carpentry, plumbing, elec., etc.- places where they proliferate, they do not pay social security, or taxes. The combined loss of money, per person, is about 5,000 dollars, 3,000 on S.S., and 2,000 on taxes.
Now combine that with how many of them there are- about 10 million- and you have real monetary loss for the U.S.
That is only part of the equation. The people who are trying to go along with the law are made to look like fools when we pardon (excuse me, give amnesty to) these lawbreakers. Also, if you scroll down, you can read about the other effects these people have. I do not know where you live, but I will wager it’s not Texas, where we get a large amount of these illegals. I would also wager that your work cannot be affected by the influx of illegal immigrants, or you might have a different view.
Personally, I would aggressively pursue workplace enforcement, as well as catch them at the border.
Mexico has all the advantages to care for their own people, but they choose not to reform their system, instead, they have an unspoken govt. sanctioned plan to “re- capture” the American southwest by flooding this area with immigrants. This was the topic in an editorial published in the Mexico City newspaper El Excelsior in 1983.
As a Texan, I know of many Mexicans who will candidly say that, yes, this is true. They all say the same basic thing- they don’t have the arms to take the land back but they DO have the people, so this is what they do.
In addition, as long as the U.S. is used as a relief valve, Mexico will never reform itself, and it truly needs to.
Only with aggressive enforcement and a sturdy wall, will Mexico consider doing something different, like reformation of their society- they have no middle class, and they need it. A society that is either top or bottom heavy will not last. Our government needs to know this also.
I will never understand how it is liberals keep saying that it is OK to break the law if all you want is to make your life better. A bank robber only wants to make his life better but we put him in jail.
If we applied the 14th Amendment the way it was written then none of the children would be citizens and their families would not be broken up. If they take their kids with them they would not be broken up either.
If all these illegals pay taxes as you claim why would we make them pay back taxes?
These people broke the law. They should not be rewarded for it. It is unjust to those who follow the rules.
If they want to make their lives better, great then do it the right way. They are owed nothing and I do not intend to reward them for breaking the law. Crack down on employers. A $10,000 fine PER ILLEGAL working for you. That will make them check, jons will dry up and they will go home on their own, a de facto deportation.
Adam wrote:
This is blatantly incorrect. The error here is that assume that we act as if legal Americans do not break the law. Conservatives are for the rule of law and we know people break the law. You say that they pay a reasonable price through the justice system. So if a guy robs a store and gets 5 years, that is the penalty for the robbery and we are fine with that. If a guy rapes a woman and gets 20 years, that is the penalty and we are fine with that.
Good, the penalty for being here illegally is deportation. If we expect Americans to pay the required price for breaking the law then the ILLEGALS should do the same. Remember, the penalty is deportation.
Secondly, you claim that Americans get a punishment through the JUSTICE system but want to let ILLEGALS pay a civil penalty through a legislative process. Legislators will decide on a fine and they will pay it and basically get amnesty. They will not have paid the established penalty for entering illegally which is deportation.
Adam, seriously? I get so tired of these same lame over-the-top things people say about conservatives. We don’t all hate illegals and we all know that they don’t all go around killing people. But the fact is, as a collective, they take more from our country than they contribute.
And for the record, although some people do talk about deporting them all, we know perfectly well that will never happen, so people just need to quit talking about it; its a non-issue.
While we can almost pause to take a breath in this vapid economic period, as soon as money is flowing again, so will the illegals, and as a carpenter who has worked with them for many years, I can say that while I like and admire them as people, I feel that they have destroyed the blue- collar part of our society that used to be the backbone of our culture.
As a child growing up, I knew of several of my friends’ fathers who were plumbers, carpenters, A/C techs, electricians, bricklayers, etc.
No longer- the influx of illegals, coupled with our politicians refusing to couple the minimum wage to yearly inflation indices has brought about the death of the American blue- collar worker.
It really is not that Americans won’t do these jobs, but there has to be the possibility of a future for their families.
Since 1970, the prices of goods has risen 1000%, on average, while the minimum wage has only risen 250- 300%.
In 1970, the minimum wage was 1.75- if it had been tied to inflationary rises, the minimum wage would now be approx. 21.50 per hour.
Everybody’s wages are tied to the minimum wage in one way or another, even if it is only by comparison.
But as long as we are addicted to “low” prices on housing,for example, we will continue to get what we pay for, and that will be shoddy products, and a sick economy, because we cannot have a healthy economy without blue- collar jobs, and they should be Americans- after all the world needs bricklayers too, and since not every American will grow up to be a software designer, some might find a career in the trades to be rewarding, but only if they are paid what they are worth.
After working as a carpenter for 35 years, I know how to build a multi- million dollar house that would actually be worth the price. That is something that can’t necessarily be said with illegals. They know they don’t have to stand behind the quality, so they don’t try for quality- they just get through the day.
Kris:
“But the fact is, as a collective, they take more from our country than they contribute.”
Where are you getting that information? I’d be interested in seeing some examples. I try to stay away from generalizations as far as conservatives go but I am hard pressed to find conservatives at this point saying rational things about illegal immigration so I slip up a little.
Blake:
You bring up some good points. A recession is really the worst time for folks to try and talk about amnesty when so many Americans are out of work.
I don’t know that an illegals work is lower quality. My father-in-law builds houses in Northwest Arkansas and knowing him has given me a good look at several different perspectives there in that industry relating to immigrant work forces. Really though it’s the job of the person managing the crew to ensure the quality of the work and if the team isn’t up to the quality due for a project then it’s time to let them go or they’ll lose work in the long run. To suggest that American crews would automatically share your pride in your job and strong work ethic I think is a bit short-cited.
Perhaps, and I do not wish to leave the impression that American workers are automatically better- they are not. However, I have noticed what I call the Peon attitude with regard to illegals- they know that their job might go away, so they rarely have to learn in depth about the complexities of the job. I had one guy I know was smart, and yet I would have to show him again and again how to do things. He worked for me for eight years, and I had to show him the most elementary things time and again.
They also conveniently use the “language barrier” when it suits them, choosing to not understand, when it suits them.
And contrary to liberal cant, they do not pay into Social Security and taxes, not if they are general labor, that is: Carpentry,plumbing, electrical, A/C, bricklaying or stonemasonry, lawn care, and other basic labor. This is because of a loophole most builders and sub- contractors use, whereby all the money earned is given to the person in question, who for tax purposes, is now a one man company. This means that they are supposed to be liable for all their taxes (the alleged boss does not withhold), and since there is no withholding, the person is supposed to double down on the amount put into Social Security. This total can be 5,000 or more (times 10 million), and that’s a lot of money. If you combine that tax loss with what they use in social services, which are supposed to be for our own citizens’ needs. that is a lot of money that we really cannot spare at this time.
Make no mistake, I like these people- I am a sixth generation Texan, born in San Antonio, and I feel at home with all the Tejanos I grew up with, but when these people come over illegally, they swamp a system never designed to accommodate so many people so quickly.
Amazing that BO wants to reopen this debate. His party and a good number of the GOP got bloodied over this the last time around. Any Republicans that come out in favor of this will be bounced out at the earliest opportunity.
More interestingly though, this is real testimony to the arrogance of the President, though. He believes He can persuade the opposition to agree with him based on the power and delivery of His words. This is hugely unpopular even with organized labor.
This could be Obama’s tipping point. (one can only hope)
I don’t think BO believes he will persuade anyone – he believes he won so he decides. He forgets that he works for us and really needs to accept the fact that the majority of Americans want the borders closed and illegal immigrants deported.
Yes, I believe they can be deported. Perhaps not every one of them – but we have to start somewhere. The fact that they broke the law to be here and continue breaking the law makes them undesirable as citizens of our country.
I don’t believe they contribute more than they take – in fact, I think that is a ridiculous statement that people use to justify chronic law-breakers. Approximately 1/3 of incarcerated criminals are illegals. They are costing us money and NOT ONE of them is contributing a thing. It’s a waste of our money.
I think employers should be penalized severely for employing illegals – no jobs means they will leave themselves and we won’t have to deport them. Of course, they need to be denied any benefits whatsoever that come from taxpayer money. Times are hard and I think we have to look out for our own citizens first – they need jobs and we don’t need a bunch of criminals in our country!
“He forgets that he works for us and really needs to accept the fact that the majority of Americans want the borders closed and illegal immigrants deported.”
While you can find 1 or two polls that point to that view just running through a quick list of immigration polls on Polling Report shows mixed opinion on those two subjects and no clear way to make the statement you just made. What are you basing your statement on?
Billy Joe,
Cheney was SecDef under the first Bush. We had a war with Iraq to get them out of Kuwait, not as a result of terror. The Islamofascist problem showed under Carter, disappeared the day Reagan took office and reemerged when Clinton took office.
Really? Who was it then that blew up the US Marine Corps barracks in Beirut in 1983?
Yes, Randy, it was Hezbollah, and we even had some warning about that one, but as usual, our intelligence agencies were slow to understand that the paradigm was in the process of change. No more would it be just simple airline hi- jackings, but the process was going to be more complicated, because of the rise of Wahabiism from Saudi Arabia. This sect, which is like David Koresh on steroids, takes the most ignorant amongst them, and assures them paradise- what more could a sexually repressed teen who has nothing to look forward to except sand want? 72 virgins (admittedly, like the comic says, I would want 72 women who really knew what they were doing, but whatever.
These cultists are weaned by tales of the might of the Moslem Empire, which, to be fair, was prodigious indeed, if far in the past. They truly know little of how the world works, and think that they could win out against us.
With a mindset like that, they just keep on coming.
I just wish we could unleash some Comanches, circa 1852 or so- just so the muslims could truly know the depths that cruelty can sink to.
Right. So there was an Islamofascist problem that reared it’s ugly head while Ronald Regan was in office. In fact, there was also an attack on a US embassy and several other terrorist attacks on US interests by Islamofascists while Regan was in office.
Yes, Randy, but let’s not forget the Iranian embassy problem that happened on Carter’s watch, and you could even go back to the Munich massacre at the Olympics when you talk about Islamic extremists.
I find it interesting that (especially in this Easter season) the Palestinians all say that the Israelis are taking the Palestinians historical lands, when it was the Muslim invasion of the Holy Lands that brought about the Diaspora of the Jewish people.
Jerusalem was a Jewish city long before it was a muslim city, and Israel was Jewish, then Roman, Persian, Abyssinian, Greek, then Muslim. That poor land has been used like it was an hourly motel room.
Also, the Jewish religion predates Christianity, and really predates Islam, so again, who’s right?
If one reads the historical documents relating to the 1947 creation of the state of Israel, one begins to see the real history of this whole problem.
The Israelis urged the Palestinians to stay, and help them with this new country, but the other Muslim states, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia all promised that they would wipe the Jews off of the earth, and if the Palestinians stayed in refugee camps “just for a few weeks”, the Palestinians could have all the riches that the Jews left behind.
As we now know, the Jews didn’t see it that way, and they were tired of being pushed around. “Never Again” was their rallying cry, and they whipped the Arab states in ’48, ’67, and ’72, if memory serves.
What the Arab states needed was a Rodney King- “Can’t we all just get along?” moment, but arab hate lasts a thousand years, so I do not think we will see the end anytime soon. It is a pity, really, the Arab and Persian world used to be the center of intellectual thought- now it has become an intellectual wasteland.
I’m not arguing with you that this is a problem. I am taking issue with Big Dog saying the problem disappeared while Regan was in office.
No, there were a few attacks that were treated like military action, not police actions. The UN was in charge of the mess to boot.
The reality is we were attacked more on Clinton’s watch. For years the Islamo terrorists have been getting bolder and bolder. No attackes here at home except the two that Clinton was responsible for. 1993 WTC and the 2001 WTC (he emboldened PBL to do it).
The Iranians let the hostages go the day Reagan was sworn in. They knew better than to tick him off. Libya learned a valuable lesson as well.
Oh, Potsy.
“I don’t think BO believes he will persuade anyone – he believes he won so he decides. He forgets that he works for us and really needs to accept the fact that the majority of Americans want the borders closed and illegal immigrants deported.”
He won. Get over it. He has what Great Leader W calls “political capital” and he is indeed the “decider”.
“Approximately 1/3 of incarcerated criminals are illegals. They are costing us money and NOT ONE of them is contributing a thing. It’s a waste of our money.”
Bullsh!t. But hey, we are used to it by now…http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html
“I think employers should be penalized severely for employing illegals – no jobs means they will leave themselves and we won’t have to deport them. Of course, they need to be denied any benefits whatsoever that come from taxpayer money. Times are hard and I think we have to look out for our own citizens first – they need jobs and we don’t need a bunch of criminals in our country!”
You might want to start a garden because the price of your fruit and veggies will rise as soon as we start deporting illegals.
Bunny- we in Texas had a program in the60s and 70s that was called the Bracero program, and temporary visas were issued to these workers so they could follow the crops in a seasonal migration, then go home in the winter. This worked very well until Jimmy Carter, when these illegals got the bright idea to stay. They were encouraged by people in the government, who believed that they could take over the American Southwest by flooding the area with immigrants, who would vote Mexico’s interests. This subject was an editorial in the Mexico City paper, El Excelsior, in 1983,where they claimed they would take back all their “stolen” lands.
The problem is, they cannot even manage what they have, because their government is so corrupt. It is a tragedy, as I have been many times to Mexico,and my family has had a long history with this country and its people.
I have worked carpentry alongside them for over 30 years, and I like them a lot, but in the end, the law must prevail, and we simply MUST have a border policy that is secure and sane. That means a fence and I.D. cards that are foolproof.
Only with the security of knowing that they are legal can they truly begin to contribute to the American Dream.
The budget itself is speculative because it is not approved, only requested.
As for Bunny, I don’t care how much fruits and vegetables cost. I will pay more to keep illegals out. The gubmint was not concerned about the price of corn when it foolishly made us use it for fuel.
Anyway, put criminals on buses, ship them to farms and make them pick the fruits and veggies. Pay them a dollar an hour and have the farm provide some food to the jail in compensation.
Worrying about paying more for a commodity is no excuse to sanction illegal behavior.
And yep, Resident Obama won. That does not negate the fact that he works for me.
Bunny, the real reason that illegal immigrants flock over here is that the pay is better here than Mexico, where they often have to rummage through trash heaps. I do not mind the legal immigrants, but it is because of our lovely Congress (both parties) that illegals have become so pervasive. Congress has refused to tie the minimum wage to the inflationary index, which is the average that prices of goods (food, washing machines, etc.) rise in a given year. This averages 3.3% per year. If you gauge from 1970, when the minimum wage was 1.75. to 2000, the minimum wage would have been 17.50 per hour. This is drastically different than what we have now, which is less than 7.00 per hour.
For this reason more than any other, Americans haven’t gone into the trades, traditional blue- collar jobs that, in the past, would have seen a fair amount of our native- born sons and daughters go to.
These are jobs , not that Americans won’t do, but that Americans hesitate to do because there is no future, little chance of advancement, and that is what you want if you are to raise a family.
The illegals do the job because, low as the wages are, they are still higher than they are in Mexico.
It used to be, back during the ’60s and ’70s, that a program called the Bracero program, used temporary visas to allow Mexicans in for seasonal veggie picking, and then, when the season was over, they would go home to Mexico. This has changed, because Mexico now has double the people it had then, and it really doesn’t want its people back. Mexico wants to flood the American Southwest with its citizens, so as to “assimilate” the southwest back to Mexico, and they are slowly going to succeed, if we do not do something decisive soon.
Arizona, California, and New Mexico might go down without a fight, but I doubt Texas will.
This is a complicated problem that will only begin to be solved, or at least mitigated, by a secure border fence and enforcement.
Dog, up until the ’80s, when liberals got sensitive, the Texas Prisons were self- sufficient, with everything made there- all food, clothing, bricks for building more prisons, etc.
Enter the ACLU and liberal federal judges, who said that this work violated the prisoner’s “rights”, so prisoners got to lay around and watch TV, and the cost of operating these prisons soared.
The funny thing is, the prisoners actually like to do outside work, whether it is gardening ,or whatever, it beats looking at the grey walls 24/7.
We need to get back to common sense things, like prisons and prisoners actually paying their debt to society, and part of that should be a work program- getting back to the prison farms we used to have, which would mitigate at least a part of the cost of their incarceration.
Yeah Blake, we need a prison stimulus package that involves stimulating the prisoners to do the work.
And the problem with Iran did disappear under Reagan.
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