Stimulus Nears 1.6 TRILLION Dollars
by Big Dog on Jan 28, 2009 at 05:59 Political
The economic stimulus package that must urgently be passed is nearing 900 BILLION dollars. Combine that with the 700 Billion that has already been spent and we are nearing 2 TRILLION dollars in stimulus spending, most of which will not stimulate the economy. There are questions as to whether it will actually create any jobs.
I give Obama credit for meeting with Republicans and telling them he was open to suggestions because this is more than the Democrats in Congress have done. But the reality is, bipartisanship and agreement are defined by Democrats as when you agree to what they want.
I have little doubt the stimulus will pass in the House because Democrats have a large majority there. There are enough votes to allow vulnerable Democrats to vote no. The Senate will be more tricky but it is likely that a few Republicans will defect to the other side and pass this boondoggle. Look how easily they rolled over on the nominations of Obama’s nominees…
Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans should be very careful. The next elections are not that far away and the public had had enough. A vote for the bailout could be a bad career move especially if the economy is still in turmoil when 2010 rolls around.
The stimulus is a bad idea. The first one did not work so the solution is to throw more money at the problem. This is like being in a boat with a hole in the bottom and deciding the way to fix the problem is to make the hole bigger.
The special interests are lined up in DC with their hands out for money we don’t have and that our grandchildren will be paying back.
This is no way to run a country.
Sources:
WSJ
My Way News
al Reuters
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Tags: bailout, democrat, republican, stimulus, trillion
Where’s MINE??????? Sure could use it! Get some of my taxes back, besides what I have to file for.
“A vote for the bailout could be a bad career move especially if the economy is still in turmoil when 2010 rolls around.”
It helps to note that they’re projecting the economic issues to last well into 2010 and the effects of the recession to be felt for up to 2 years after the recession officially ends. This is one reason it hasn’t made much sense for the GOP to rail against the bailout over the idea that parts of the money won’t even be in use by 2010. This turned out to be largely based on incomplete CBO results of course but that never bothered any conservative. The real numbers look a lot better.
If the recession ended this very day unemployment would continue to rise for some time and interest rates still wouldn’t start to rise again until 2011 or 2012.
No doubt your side will ignore this fact and campaign against Dems as failures as if we said the bailout would pass this week and the economy to boom next month. It may work or it may not. Just depends on how well the Dems work the message in the next few years.
“The first one did not work so the solution is to throw more money at the problem.”
This is also a misleading statement. The first one? Are we talking about the rebate checks? The problem with that since it was an irregular payment people just saved it or used it to pay debt, which did nothing. It would have to be made permanent or occur regularly to actually boost the economy. That’s hardly what is being planned a 2nd time. The new package deals with job creation and investment. There’s a big difference.
The 750 BILLION dollar stimulus that was supposed to get banks to lend money did not work. Not the checks that distributed wealth. However, you are right if you allow people to keep their money the economy does better. But you can’t take it from some and give it to others which is what they did.
The package McCain suspended his campaign to address did not help.
This package is not designed to create jobs because government does not create them, the private sector does. Government will add jobs building roads but for every dollar they spend doing that they take a dollar away from a taxpayer, a net zero gain.
And tell me, how can contraceptives, STD prevention, preparation for universal health care and billions to ACORN stimulate the economy or create jobs?
It is nothing but pork all to give Democrats all the spending they want on the things they could never get passed on their own merits. Rahm said not to let a crisis go to waste to use it to get what you otherwise could not…
Is that the one that bush wanted passed with no oversight and that was initially explained to Congress in 3 pages by Paulson?
Other than that, care to back any of your assertions up with actual evidence (for example, your ridiculous ACORN charge)?
I wonder how much gear Sarah Palin could grab at Nieman Marcus with 1.6 trill. Probably enough to fill more than a few trash bags at RNC HQ.
Dog, if I remember correctly you were a big Palin fan. Have you seen that new flick about her life, Nailin’ Palin?? I haven’t seen it, but apparently it’s about her rise to the top of Alaskan state politics and all of the hard work it took to get there.
I like Sarah Palin and she is a good person who is very smart despite what you folks did to her.
I don’t think she spent as much as Michelle Obama did on those table cloths and curtains she wore to the coronation.
I have not seen the film and I think the whole idea is disgusting but I am not surprised a misogynist like you would say Palin slept her way to the top. You libs are all about treating people, whether they be minorities or women, as second class.
Of course if anyone suggested that Obama did such a thing we would have to hear from morons like you about how we are attacking him blah, blah.
He is not as smart as he or his followers think.
He does not know a door from a window. I bet Palin does…
You’re confusing things. The $750 billion was a bailout, not a stimulus. The point was to keep the banks and car manufacturers from going under from the crisis, which they didn’t, but of course we were already in a recession because of it. Bailing them out didn’t do much for employment in the country, it wasn’t intended to do anything like the new plan.
The vast majority of jobs created would actually be in the private sector contrary to popular belief. The plan contains not just ways to create jobs but spending in order to prevent job loss which would extend on for years even if the recession was over today.
I think Paul Krugman put it best when he said “One man’s pork barrel is another man’s public work’s project.”
The medical stuff is mainly aimed at saving the states money with preventative care to free up more resources to keep them from running as large of deficits.
I’m sorry, but your net zero gain thing doesn’t gel with any economic reality.
Don’t take any of this as me saying I think it will work because I really don’t know. But I do know there is an huge canyon between what you guys are saying about economics and the stimulus and what is actual reality and in this recovery plan.
Well Adam,
I think we learned this with FDR but then again what do I know.
Your excuse for the medical stuff is lame and has nothing to do with the economy. And you conveniently did not mention ACORN.
The Limbaugh Obama plan is a better one.
Walter E Williams describes it better with your one man’s work meme. Remember what I said, in order to spend on a public works project you have to take money from taxpayers.
Also, the plan will not create all these private sector jobs. Obama said he would preserve jobs but it is unlikely that will happen.
We will see but it is moot. The economy will get better in time even if they did nothing so when they do pass it and the economy eventually recovers they can claim credit, like they keep doing for FDR.
“Of course if anyone suggested that Obama did such a thing we would have to hear from morons like you about how we are attacking him blah, blah.”
Well Doggie, I heard from your batsh!t crazy friend Cao about Obama accepting oral sex from a crack-addicted male some time ago. Was that just his bi-curiosity getting the better of him or was the crackhead in question Mark Foley/Ted Haggard and Obama just “sleeping his way to the top” and trying to win over evangelical voters?
Did she say he did that to get where he is or did she report that the guy was making the claim and that he was on video doing so?
That would be a bit different than making some porn flick and saying Palin made it where she is because she slept around.
Is there a reason you come here to insult people? Don’t you have a website?
You were gone for about 6 months but I knew you would be back once your sentence was over.
Adam probably didn’t mention ACORN because there is nothing to mention. Billions haven’t been allocated to them in the stimulus package and there are no plans to allocate billions to them.
First off, the cretin I was referring to is named Mao, not Cao. I don’t know what she claimed, and does the fact that the drug addict video taped his claim make it more believable somehow? Your buddy Bill Clinton said some things on camera that didn’t necessarily turn out to be true.
I come here to insult people b/c your site tends to attract a more uninformed demographic. Easy prey, if you know what I mean.
I was gone for 6 months because I was busy helping win an election that you said couldn’t be won. I’m sorry you’re so offended by my remarks concerning Sarah “Nailin'” Palin. Please, I beg you, do your part to ensure that she is the (r)epuke nominee in 2012. She is really smart, Dog.
I don’t remember saying Obama could not win. As I recall, Hillary Clinton said that.
My site does not tend to attract uninformed, they just are not in agreement with what you think which might mean you are uninformed.
You don’t know any of us and yet you insult our intelligence as if you are smarter. Like I said before, it might make you feel good about yourself to think so but you are no better and no smarter than any of us.
Nor are we you.
I think your remarks are crass and don’t represent the person you claim to be. You resort to juvenile things while claiming to be of superior intellect.
If you were drumming up votes for Obama then you were in jail…
I am willing to bet Palin is as smart or smarter than you. She was presented as stupid for some of the things she said while Obama was a genius when he made as many stupid statements.
Like there are 57 states…
I have to agree with Randy. There is nothing but more Rush Windbagh dribble behind the whole ACORN suggestion.
Your continued mentioning of the so called failures of FDR doesn’t mesh with reality as determined by economists or historians, but it is a pretty good story I hear Conservatives repeating over and over…
Your rebuke is something along the lines of “it will not create jobs, it will not stimulate” etc., etc., yet you base your opinion on what?
I think many historians and economists have repeated the stuff about FDR.
He was concerned with getting more Democrats elected and that is why he spent a ton of money.
It did not help. Look at the numbers. WWII got us out of the depression.
I have to admit that WWII was a big government jobs program…
I mainly see your point about the medical stuff. I just think that many parts of the stimulus package are things such as this that not only stimulate the economy through spending but also invests in the future by cutting costs or improving services, or as they say getting ready for more medical changes down the road. That is what separates a good plan from a bad plan. Will it not only stimulate the economy in the short and but will it lay foundations by investing in the future? How the recovery act handles this particular challenge is yet to be seen.
Yes, the Democrats were trying to slip billions to ACORN, but the Republicans caught it and I pray they continue to fight it. This is not the first time that Democrats have done this and we find out about it too late. As far as Sarah Palin, there are some people in this world, like some above. who live to tear people’s reputation down without cause. Magazines and newspapers are biased and not trustworthy. Sarah Palin is a Godly woman and that is why you can’t stand her.
BILLIONS to ACORN? Wow, I hadn’t heard that!
Palin for Pres 2012…God is on her side.
My wife is a Godly woman and I married her. Sarah Palin is just an idiot.
Again, the Dems were not slipping any money to ACORN. The bill never mentions ACORN by name and the process for allocating the money ACORN could apply for is a competitive process. That’s probably what’s confusing y’all, you’ve grown used to no-bid contracts over the last 8 years…
And I love how everybody hates ACORN now anyway. ACORN exists for voter fraud as much as Planned Parenthood exists simply to abort poor babies. But don’t tell the echo-chamber you folks keep your ear to…
Adam,
I think we should all pay attention to the fact that competetive bidding has been brought back into the fold where government spending is concerned. Millions, if not billions were wasted in Mississippi alone on Katrina related reconstruction due to the awarding of no-bid contracts by the federal government. I agree that no one knows if the stimulus package will work as desired, but responsible spending is a big plus.
Adam- I find all of the ACORN hoopla to be pretty amusing myself. Most of the morons on this board had never even heard of ACORN before the voter fraud accusations.
I’ve spent quite a bit of time in New Orleans post- Katrina. And I can tell you all that few groups have done as much non-profit reconstruction work in the area as ACORN. In addition to their full-time employees, ACORN of NOLA puts groups of volunteers to work every week gutting and rebuilding homes in the flood ravaged areas. Thousands of volunteers, from college kids on spring break to church groups to conventioneers, have worked side by side with the ACORN staff to rebuild the area. But the (r)epukes don’t wanna hear that.
Remember all of the fraud accusations that came to light about the United Way a few years back? Well, it turns out that there was indeed some big $$$ thievery going on. Does that mean that the United Way is “bad”? Do any of you (r)epukes give to the United Way? Should all of the good deeds that this organization has done over the years be forgotten due to the criminal behavior of a handful of people?
BJ, That would be the one Bush and everyone on the Democratic side pushed with the help of Republicans. Remember, Pelosi was crying that she got no Republican support?
A bunch of her Dems voted no after she told them it was OK to protect their seats. Then when it failed she and Harry Reid discussed how they needed someone to lead and to get Republican votes.
That was to give them cover so people like you could blame it on Bush. He certainly shares some of the blame but he had help all around.
And Democrats paved the way for the problem with help from the Republicans.
There is enough blame to go around.
On Friday, House Republican Leader John Boehner raised the alarm with the discovery that, buried in the trillion-dollar spending bill approved last week in the House Appropriations Committee was a provision for more than 4 billion dollars to go to “neighborhood stabilization activities.”
Instead of providing these funds just to state and local governments, their bills says funds can go to “States, units of general local government, and nonprofit entities or consortia of nonprofit entities.”
Why did the liberals who control the House Appropriations Committee slip that language into the bill? Because the “nonprofit entities” are units of ACORN.
From a recent article. The item was placed in to specifically send money to ACORN.
Yes, I heard of them long before this past election. There are more than a few corrupt people in that organization.
Does the bill say ACORN, no. But it is intended for them. I know it is hard for people on the left to comprehend.
It is called baseless when it involves an organization that supports Democrats. It is called a lie when they are included but not named.
Let a right wing organization be involved and all the sudden you guys go bonkers.
I see you forgot to mention the competitive bidding process to determine who recieves those funds Big Dog. I suppose that there is evidence to support the idea that the process is rigged to give the “nonprofit entities or consortia of nonprofit entities money” to ACORN. Please provide links.
I believe that the article states that many of the organizations that would qualify are part of ACORN.
As for competitive bidding, the money goes where they want it to.
One of you mentioned Halliburton and no bids blah, blah.
I have stated this before but will put it out again.
Bill Clinton gave Halliburton no bid contracts (actually no president awards them). It just so happens that Halliburton is the only company equipped and with the resources to do the job they needed done.
It is why Clinton and Bush gave them the contracts.
No bids can be authorized based on certain criteria like being the only one that can provide the service…
First off, what article?
Second, Halliburton is certainly not the only company that can build a roof on a house on Mississippi. Neither is the company from Alaska that was given the federal contract to repair roofs in Mississippi. Room, board, meals, travel, and salaries included.
So Dog, the $4bill toward “neighborhood stabilization activities” would have gone straight to ACORN? Wow! I would bet that this much money would constitute a boost of at least 1000% to their annual budget.
And even though ACORN isn’t mentioned by name, you somehow know that they’ll be the ones getting all of the cash? Where do you get such insider info? You are in the know, buddy.
And what about my United Way comparison? No comment? Seems so unlike you.
Halliburton’s no bids were for work in support of conflicts. I am unaware of no bids going to them for the work you describe.
Was the Alaska company selected or goven no bid? Also, the government has a list of companies that are allowed to bid.
And, was it a minority company? They get preferential treatment from the government when it comes to contracts. That is what they want fo the infrastructure projects.
Bunny, I do not give to United Way and don’t know what they did. I cannot offer a comment if I do not know about it. Your comment mentioned people who donate to it. I don’t
The people in Congress who poo poohed the thing seem to know who it was for.
The quote I sent.
Fair enough. Would you say that the United Way is a “bad” organization due to the fact that a small number of people committed fraudulent acts while working for the United Way? If you want, I’ll provide some links regarding the fraud.
But for now, just take my word for it that such acts took place. Does this mean that we should all disregard the good works of the United Way based on the actions of a few bad apples? Because that’s exactly what you and your ilk are doing with ACORN.
Again Big Dog, what article are you referring to regarding ACORN and the stimulus package?
Also, after a quick review I didn’t see anyone mention Halliburton except for you. Halliburton was awarded no bid contracts to repair off shore oil rigs damaged by Katrina in the Gulf of Mexico. That is what Halliburton does. I am talking about the no bids awarded for cleanup and repair after Katrina that recieved little or no oversight. Google ‘”blue roof” contracts katrina’ for more info. More than half of the contracts awarded for the cleanup were no bids. That includes all contracts including debris removal, structural repair, etc.
Randy-
He’s not referring to any “article”. John Boehner** made this claim about ACORN and the stimulus package and, with Dog’s poor judgment, this automatically makes it true.
**Edited by the site owner for violation of comment policy. A juvenile remark was removed.
I suspect as much Bunny, how’s Namond by the way?
Big Dog, the Alaska company I speak of, and I am still lookig for the specific company, either recieved a no bid contract or was sub contracted by a company that recieved a no bid contract. I knew of this particular incident first hand. I am sure it is documented and I will reference it when I find it.
Nay is doing just fine Randy, thanks for asking. He’ll be heading to college in no time. He’s a perfect example of how much a young black man can accomplish when raised by loving parents/guardians. Of course, the (r)epukes would rather blame the child for the sins of the parents and deny him healthcare by voting against the expansion of SCHIP.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9601979/
There is another post with Halliburton and no bids mentioned.
The government contract process is not sane. There are some companies that are allowed to bid on things. Others must partner with them in order to do any work.
Some companies that do special things (like Halliburton and oil rigs) get no bids because only they can do it. I wonder, oil rigs belong to oil companies so maybe they contracted HB.
As for the others, I have no doubt the process went to hell fast. They were awarding contracts to everyone after all the politics of the moment. People just wanted to get stuff done.
Also, I would like to see how many of those contracts were awarded to minority businesses and such. They get first dibs…
I did read an article about the ACORN issue, despite what Bunny says. I will try to find it. There is no doubt about the wording and I am sure what it means as are those in Congress (from both sides).
Bunny, you don’t know me. So zip it.
I edited your last comment. That will be the last time I have to do so.
That is not a request or a casual statement.
People don’t get ‘dibs’ on no bid contracts. I concede you may be right about the oil rigs in the Gulf. As for the rest of the Katrina relief in Mississippi, there was no sense in it at all. Contracts were awarded to politically connected enteties. When congressional and media scrutiny began, it was promised by the Army Corps of Engineers that the process of awarding contracts would change. It didn’t. I was born in Mississippi and have plenty of family there. It irks me to this day that the Federal Government didn’t take the opportunity to let local businesses that could have hired local people that needed jobs bid on those contracts. It could have worked wonders for morale and helped give some life to the extremely weak economy in Mississippi. It would have saved us (federal taxpayers) a ton of money as well.
Dog,
I noticed that you haven’t edited Sgt. Harry Blancos comments about “butteffinliberals”. Isn’t that at least as offensive as what I wrote? Double standard?
Ban me if you want, but I’ve been lurking here from time to time over the past six months and I think you get more hits with me around. You love to dish it out, you just can’t take it. Just like Mao, Ravenous, and Catastrophe. Weak.
I can dish it out and take it. I get plenty of hits with or without you.
I have edited out his stuff. The remark he made was about libs in general. You attack specific people. I have not edited your comments about Republicans in general. No double standard.
Randy,
You say you will look for the information and let me know. I said I would look for the information I saw and let you know and yet you called me a liar by agreeing with Bunny that I had not read it anywhere.
Should I call you a liar or figure you will look for what you read?
Yes, people get dibs on government contracts. If you are minority owned or owned by a female. I have written a few government contracts and have been involved in that process before. I know what they tell me about who can bid and who gets awarded.
If your company in MS was subcontracted then the prime was probably minority owned.
In MS, they needed action now. There is a process and if it is done in non emergent times it takes forever. Sealed bids, review and all that. Then the companies have to be on the list of people who can bid.
The situation in MS called for things right away. Was the MS company ready and able and were they among those allowed to bid?
I posted a link to an article about an incident I had firsthand knowledge of. I did not call you a liar either. I said I found your claim suspect because the language in the actual bill contradicts what you are alleging. Actually not your claim. There is likely an article you read that made false claims.
The Alaskan company was sub contracted by a primary contractor that recieved a NO BID contract. There was no selective process. It was simply awarded to a company that felt for the sake of expediency they should hire a company in Alaska as opposed to hiring a company in Mississippi that didn’t have to travel to Mississippi because they were already there.
I assure you the Mississippi companies were as prepared as the Alaskan company. Hell, they probably could have found some minority companies in Mississippi as well.
Dog loves to talk about how swell everything was handled re Katrina in Mississippi (a state primarily controlled by (r)epukes), while those stupid Dems in Louisiana messed everything up for their constituents.
Makes me wonder what he thinks of this con(servative) man…
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/28/miss.mayor.arrested/index.html?section=cnn_latest
The state and that city was controlled by Democrats at the time. Notice how well it went with a Republican in charge.
The problem was local. There were federal problems but the feds got all the blame when most of it was at the local level.
FEMA has standing contracts in case of emergency so they can exercise them without going through a lengthy process. Maybe that is what happened.
None of us know what the facts are.
Bunny, I do not base my judgment on whether the person is conservative or not. If he broke the law then he needs to go to jail. It is really simple but I know the law is something you guys have trouble with.
Randy, the issue is, were they on the government list and did FEMA call in those with whom they had contracts already?
I have worked with FEMA on a number of occasions and it is a complicated logistical nightmare when they have to move from all over the country.
I have stated that MS handled the issues leading up to Katrina better than NO.
Things actually didn’t go that well in Mississippi. Didn’t seem that way because N.O. was underwater, Mississippi wasn’t. Logistically they had very different problems in the immediate aftermath of the storm. Mississippi didn’t get an immediate federal response same as N.O.. The other issue is that when the abuses of the no bid contracts became apparent, nothing was done to correct the problem.
But, the people of MS evacuated before the storm and they had pretty good leadership.
In the aftermath there were problems but nothing like what happened in NO.
The people of MS suffered because for 2 weeks the emergency people had to risk their lives rescuing people who should have been evacuated or left on their own rather than stay in NO and ride it out. Resources were consumes in rescue operations.
Not perfect but better than NO.
What you are saying, whether you realize it or not, is that the apples in Mississippi taste better than the oranges in Louisiana.
Not everyone agrees with our new president. The Cato Institute placed a full-page advertisement in the New York Times today. Its statement reads as follows:
Notwithstanding reports that all economists are now Keynesians and that we all support a big increase in the burden of government, we the undersigned do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance. More government spending by Hoover and Roosevelt did not pull the United States economy out of the Great Depression in the 1930s. More government spending did not solve Japan’s “lost decade” in the 1990s. As such, it is a triumph of hope over experience to believe that more government spending will help the U.S. today. To improve the economy, policymakers should focus on reforms that remove impediments to work, saving, investment and production. Lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth.
It would take a long time to count the number of economists’ names who appear below this statement. Of local interest are Arthur Hall and Paul Koch, both of the University of Kansas.
You can view the ad at http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf.