There Is Responsibility Involved In Voting
by Big Dog on Jul 8, 2011 at 05:17 Political
Bill Clinton is upset by proposed laws in Florida and New Hampshire. Those laws would not allow people from other states, who happen to be attending college in these two states, to register to vote in the states. The law would require them to vote in their home states.
Clinton likens this to Jim Crow laws. This is nothing more than rhetoric designed to inflame the issue, which really should be a non-issue.
The members of our military who are stationed in a state other than their state of residence are not allowed to register to vote in the states in which they are stationed. They use a little thing called an absentee ballot. They request one, fill it out, and send it in. Then Democrats work really hard to have them discounted.
College kids from all states should be required to do the same thing. This IS the reason we have an absentee ballot process.
What Clinton fails to understand (as do many Democrats) is that voting requires a bit of personal responsibility. Now I know Democrats are not big on personal responsibility (and one only needs to look at Clinton to see that) but it is required nonetheless.
If college students can’t request an absentee ballot, fill it out, and mail it in then they do not need to vote. This is not an undue burden and it certainly does not rise to the level of Jim Crow.
What is it with Democrats and voting? Why do they claim ID requirements will disenfranchise people when the very people they claim will be disenfranchised need IDs to collect from the many government programs from which they benefit?
Why is it some kind of burden for people to fill out an absentee ballot if they will not be home on election day?
This all requires people to be responsible for their vote. If they can’t do that then they do not need to vote.
Hell, will we have to spoon feed them next to ensure they eat properly?
Cave Canem!
Never surrender, never submit.
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Tags: bill clinton, college students, jim crow, laws, Military, personal responsibility, voting
RCP is a conservative site I enjoy on a regular basis because of their work with polling elections but this one is off the rails. Clinton is clearly speaking not just about the college student issue but several key voter issues:
* Same day registrations
* Early voting
* Felon voting
* College students voting out of state
If Clinton had only been invoking Jim Crow over the college student issue then it would have been way overblown. Instead he paints a larger picture of an attack on the poor, minority voters, and the youth vote. When you consider the lack of logic behind Jim Crow and the lack of logic behind many new restrictions on voting this year I think it is a worthy comparison.
There is no reason to get rid of things like early voting and no reason to prevent felons from voting if they’ve served their time and are off probation. It doesn’t protect the elections, it simply removes legitimate voters from the pool for no good reason.
I don’t care much about college voting issue. I agree that an absentee ballot is fine for college students specially if we are making the military do the same thing. I would agree more strongly with letting college students vote in another state if there was ever a time when elections were more uniform between states and they’re really not at all right now.
Another issue I take with the RCP article is that it states Clinton was pandering to minority communities who have “paid their price” already. Clinton is speaking about felon’s facing massive hurdles to restore their right to vote in Florida and was not pandering at all. This group is disproportionately African American and Hispanic in Florida and it makes no sense whatsoever to roll back their right to vote.
As an aside, my favorite quote from Clinton’s speech: “I got my five tax cuts under President Bush. I made out like a bandit. I should have changed parties.”
To address your favorite quote first, Clinton shows he is a hypocrite and that liberals like higher taxes for everyone but themselves. Every person can pay more to the Treasury in order to pay the debt off. I have demonstrated that a number of times. So if Clinton was really worried about it and thought it was bad then he should have continued to send the higher amount to the government. Why did he not do that? He is a liberal hypocrite who likes to keep as much of his money as possible.
Same day registrations: Disallowing them does not equate to Jim Crow. Once again, the post discusses personal responsibility. The laws say you have to be registered by a certain date to vote in an election. If you are not responsible enough to do that then you should not vote. Not anywhere near Jim Crow.
Early Voting: Disallowing is not anywhere near Jim Crow. For a very long time we did not have early voting in this country and it affected everyone equally. People voted on election day. We can debate whether early voting is a good or bad thing but to equate it to Jim Crow or to say it affects minorities disproportionately is a farce and designed to stir up race based emotions (a Democrat specialty). Not equal to Jim Crow, no way, no how. There is a lot more opportunity for fraud with early voting so I would be happy if they had a mandatory 10 year sentence and loss of the privilege to vote forever if one is caught voting more than once (in the same state, different states, absentee ballot and on election day and all the other ways people commit voter fraud) in order to keep early voting.
Felon Voting. Felons lose certain rights when they are convicted. If they are a felon they lose the right to vote and that is that. It is not equal to Jim Crow, all felons regardless of color lose the right to vote. If the majority of felons happen to be minorities then perhaps the minority communities should police up a bit and make things better. If you are a felon you cannot own a gun. Are you willing to allow felons who have paid their dues to society for their crimes own a gun? Felons are not eligible for certain jobs. Are you going to say that a felon who has paid his due is now allowed to hold those sensitive jobs? If you answer no then why allow them to vote? Here is a novel idea, don’t commit a felony if you want to vote. Denying felons the vote does not remove legitimate voters for no good reason. Committing a felony removes a legitimate voter for a very good reason.
Last one addressed in the post.
No matter how you slice it, none of these taken individually or all together comes anywhere near the Democrat imposed Jim Crow laws. Clinton was wrong, he was inciting hatred and stirring up racial tensions. He was wrong Adam and RCP was right. Nothing was close to Jim Crow. It is not about things that affect only minorities because all these issues affect all voters. All people who want to vote can do so but voting involves personal responsibility and that is something many people seem to lack.
Adam-Felons should not have the right to vote- period. The acts that landed them in proson should logically ensure that they never vote again.
By your logic, (and “Cigar” Bill’s) these same felons should have the right to bear arms- after all, they did their time, so let’s restore ALL their rights- right?
“All people who want to vote can do so but voting involves personal responsibility and that is something many people seem to lack.”
Personal responsibility is a golden idea but in the real world people work multiple jobs, have children but no spouse, etc. There are any number of reasons that make it hard to vote on one specific day in one specific place or to register by one specific day.
My point is simply that if there are ways to make it easier for legitimate voters to vote without compromising elections integrity then that should be an option. If these things make it easier to commit fraud then tell me how.
“Are you willing to allow felons who have paid their dues to society for their crimes own a gun?”
I would let felons own guns. I can see the argument for job restriction but even that pushes it with me. But the truth is restrictions on firearms and employment have little to do with citizenship such as voting does. A citizen votes as a matter of duty. If you’re stripped of your right to vote then you’re stripped of an important part of your citizenship.
You can argue people deserve to lose voting rights if they’re a felon but a felony is in many cases not as sever as it sounds. Take this for instance:
Someone very close to me once was charged with a felony for fleeing police by car. The crime? This person was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol but had instead suffered a break from reality due to an undiagnosed mental illness. There goes the right to vote. Gone. And you think that’s only fair? This person is able to petition and have rights restored like the Florida law but as far as I know this is still not resolved after several years.
If a felon has served the time and is off probation there should be absolutely no reason the person should not be able to vote in a US election at any level. It’s a pathetic law that is all too common in states.
You can register to vote when you get a driver’s license. People can go do that any day of the week. If they want to register they can request an application by mail and send it in. The same day registration does not wash because there are plenty of days to do it. If you have time on election day then you have time the other 2 years between elections.
Early voting. If I have two homes, one in FL and one in MD I can early vote in MD and fly to FL and vote on election day. Like I said, I can go for early voting if there are severe penalties for fraud. It does not matter how frequent it is (and it only seems to be frequent to you when Republicans win) so if you will agree to severe penalties for fraud then early voting is OK.
All other citizens have a right to be safe. If you are a felon then you have done something to violate their safety. Your close person endangered people by driving dangerously to evade the police. He had a break from reality so should he be allowed to own that gun? What happens if he has a break from reality again while carrying it?
There are laws that say felons lose their right to vote. They can ask for redress to the court and that is the process they should use. Regardless of how you feel about it, none of it is anywhere equal to the Jim Crow laws Democrats enacted. That is the entire point. Want to have the debate, fine but it is not Jim Crow. Clinton should be ashamed of himself but we know he has no shame.
“If I have two homes, one in FL and one in MD I can early vote in MD and fly to FL and vote on election day.”
You can do the same thing with absentee ballots as you could do with in-person early voting. The problem isn’t the early voting.
“Regardless of how you feel about it, none of it is anywhere equal to the Jim Crow laws Democrats enacted.”
Of course you would say that. You agree with every change that restricts the ability of people to vote because you fear a nonexistent threat of voters themselves voting fraudulently. That is pretty rare but you get in trouble for it when you get caught.
The problem of exclusion of good votes is always going to outweigh the problem of inclusion of bad votes but you refuse to admit that. You’d rather just say every vote that cast was legitimate and the dozens, maybe hundreds of legitimate votes that did not get cast are just the fault of those without personal responsibility?
This is why the idea of personal responsibility becomes absurd quickly when your side uses it to justify bizarre and illogical policy.
No, you have it all wrong. People do not get in trouble for voter fraud. They get away with it all the time. The snowbirds from new York vote in Florida and then by absebtee ballot in NY. Happens a lot and they are proud of it. You asked how early votinmg could lead to fraud and I told you and we have seen a number of problems around places that have lax early voting procedures (I think Ohio had problems). We also know that this gives those who cheat a long time to conjure up votes like the mysterious ballots that showed up for Franken or in the Washington state race. In Chicago they open the polls an hour early so the dead can vote. The union guys vote for dead people until the official opening of the polls. I know some folks who use to be part of that and they explained it all. So to claim that there is little in the way of voter fraud is a lie.
And you know it to be so because you and your pal Michael Moore were all up in arms about the 2000 election that Bush won fair and square. You all saw disenfranchisement, intimidation and fraud at every polling place so much so that Moore had his army out and a hotline for the 2004 election. Like I said, you guys only see fraud when a Republican wins. Ohther than that you will claim it does not exist.
I do not agree with every change that restricts a person’s ability to vote. I just believe that it is a matter of personal responibility and that people need to be held accountable to vote. How about we make a law that says everyone has to go vote on election day or we fine them $20? Will that make you happy? Then everyone HAS to vote and can’t complain.
Regardless of what you claim or how we feel about the issues, NON of them amounts to Jim Crow. NONE, PERIOD. There is no systematic process to exclude the votes of one particular group (in other words, Democrats are not trying to keep blacks from voting). No, these rules affect everyone equally. The college kids (and if they are attending college in another state isn’t it likely they can vote absentee and not be put out), the laws to register by a certain date affect all people equally regardless of color. You either register or you don’t. Early voting is not Jim Crow no matter what you do with it. We had voting on one day only for a long time before women and blacks were allowed to vote and it was considered a fair process for those allowed to vote. Long after blacks and women could vote we had elections only on one day and no one group was excluded over another. Most people could go vote and some could not but that was not some race based BS. It affected everyone equally. Therefore, JIM CROW DOES NOT APPLY.
Keep defending what Clinton said if you must but that is all part of the race baiting. You want to debate those issues the country can have that debate but don’t play the race card. It just does not work because it is obvious that it does not apply and is designed to stir up racial tension. A Democrat specialty.
“Your close person endangered people by driving dangerously to evade the police.”
Actually this person drove just under the speed limit but couldn’t recognize the authority of the police and they don’t appreciate that very much. This was about three years ago and quite a mess.
There’s no reason a felon should lose the right to vote or have to petition and jump through hoops to get their rights back. This is just a way that a joke of a politician can look tough and serious on crime and direct way they can limit voting by poor people who are much more likely to be involved in crime.
Has nothing to do with poor people involved in crime. What you should consider is why the poor are involved in crime. No doubt Democrat policies that keep them in poverty, force them to drugs and violence and keep them enslaved.
Give them a chance to make something of themselves and it will not be an issue.
Felons do not get to vote. If you want to change that then change the law. I think abortion is designed to rid us of black children and the black race (and that is ewhy planned parenthood was started) and is a stupid law. However, it is the law and if people want to have abortions they are able even if it leads to genocide.
If you want to change a law then change it but quit whining because the law is in place and is applied.
You have this concept that people who do wrong deserve to go back to normal just because they served time. Sorry, does not work that way. Part of the conviction involves losing certain things. Don’t want to lose them, don’t do bad things.
And if you have breaks from reality maybe voting is not something you should be doing anyway…