We Have Ways of Making You Insured
by Blake on Aug 24, 2009 at 08:35 Political
One provision in HR3200 that has kind of gone under the radar has been the compulsory coverage that everyone will have to have- with everyone carrying a card that identifies everyone and describes their amount of coverage. This was pushed by the insurance carriers, since approximitely one third of the people who are not covered are young people, a group that thinks it is invulnerable, or chooses to use their money for other things, like bills, and the insurance companies want their business to offset the reductions in monies they see coming down the pike.
But left nearly unexplored by angry activists was a measure of sweeping consequence that is almost guaranteed to become law if Democrats pass even a scaled-back version of health care reform: a requirement that every American carry an approved form of health insurance by 2013 or pay a penalty to the IRS.
Committees in both the House and Senate have voted in favor of the proposal, known as an individual mandate, and the Senate Finance Committee will likely support the measure when it meets again in the fall. Although President Obama opposed mandates during the 2008 campaign, he says he now supports them because of exemptions for people living near the poverty line, along with subsidies for other Americans who still can’t afford coverage.
Conservative critics contend that such a mandate would be a federal power grab exponentially larger than the concept of a public option, which will drive health care costs up under the guise of cost containment. The issue itself lies at the Republican fault lines of individual responsibility and individual freedom, pitting pro-business pragmatists against movement activists.
politicsdaily.com
Such a shame, even Republicans signing on to a governmental power play- I am very disappointed here. While it might be smart to get insurance, the LAST thing we need is an IRS with more powers to punish. In a just world, the IRS would be abolished, or at least greatly diminished, with a flat tax, but that is for another post. What concerns me now is this compulsory mandate.
Dennis Smith, of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, calls the individual mandate “an earth-shaking” issue. “My objections are the unprecedented power of the federal government over the individual,” he said. “They’re basically saying, ‘No matter what else is going on in your life, we’re here from the government and you are going to do this.’ ”
Michael Cannon, of the libertarian Cato Institute, calls the mandate “the most sweeping provision of the Obama health plan” and argues that giving the government the power to mandate coverage would effectively nationalize private health coverage. “When the government requires everybody to buy health insurance, it has the power to dictate every heath insurance policy in the country,” he said “That then gives the government power over every aspect of health insurance and every aspect of care.”
politicsdaily.com
This is seen as a sop to the insurance companies, but, yes- it would put the government squarely in your doctor’s office, as well as bank account, living room and everywhere else you would be- a tremendous blow to privacy rights. Where is the ACLU during all of this?
I guess that if Hussein does it, it can’t be bad, according to the ACLU- but I wonder about one thing.
If everyone will be required to carry a card, where are all the objections liberals had when the issue was a card for voting, or a national ID card. Isn’t this an infringement on their rights, or putting them under undue stress, or whatever the heck the argument was?
Come on- squeal like it hurts- just like you squealed about the other proposals for ID cards- we are waiting.
Because this is a real threat.
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Tags: compulsory, ID cards, insurance, privacy rights
I thought I heard on Fox News tonight that according to the Constitution, they cannot force us to buy health care. Is this true or did I hear wrong?
It is not legal, but they make the laws, and have made other laws that flout the Constitution, so who knows- we need the Supreme Court to weigh in on some of these actions .
I am pretty sure the Constitution keeps them from forcing you to buy anything. However, the major issue will be the Tenth Amendment. States have the right to say no because the issue is not delineated in the Constitution. States regulate insurance and for the feds to take that over they would have to usurp the rights of the states.
Wouldn’t it be funny, if after all of this, the SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional?
Forget the Left saying we need a public plan to compete with private insurances. Forget the Right and the “death panels” and abortion money. Only one thing matetrs int this whole debate, any everyone seems to be forgetting it:
The government should not be running ANY business. None. And healthcare is a business. And, last time I checked, healthcare was NOT a constitutional right. You are not entitled to healthcare under law, and if you choose to purchase it, you do.
End of story people: Healthcare is not a right, and the government should not be running business. Two facts that can not be argued.
I know, I know, the government already hasits fingers in all sorts of businesses. Fine, work behind the scenes. But it should not be running a business that competes with anyone. Why? What keeps businesses healthy is the need to show a profit. the government does NOT need to show a profit, and therefore can unfairly run businesses that NEED to show a profit because of shareholders out of business. If a government business fails, all it has to do si raise taxes or print more money.
Helathcare needs to be fixed. But lets start with tort reform to clean up this medical malpractice that wastes 10 billion dollars a year. Lets allow people to buy medical insurance across state lines to increase competition. There are a dozen ways to refurbish the system without tearing it down, and I don’t understand why it is so hard to understand this.
This should not be about Right and Left, Dems and Rep. It should be about understanding that as Americans, we DO NOT want the government running businesses. It is not their place, and it is not their right.
Health can be fixed- but putting it in the government’s hands (how did cash for clunkers work? Not enough money, and then not paying dealers because one signature was missed on one of a dozen pages of paperowrk that had to be filled out) should not be the direction we look.
I challenge anyone to dispute this: you can’t. Because it is fact, not opinion. Once again, government does not have the right to own a business, and we Americans should not want them to.
If you have adult children without insurance, or you lost your job and no longer have insurance, I’m sorry. And I’m sure right now you think something is better than nothing. But you’re wrong. A bad fix is worse than no fix at all.
With regard to health care delivery, America has a lot to learn from the rest of the world.
Excellent article.
D.
Page one (of three) starts here.
From Darrel’s article:
Not really. American health insurance companies routinely reject applicants with a “preexisting condition” — precisely the people most likely to need the insurers’ service. They employ armies of adjusters to deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and faces big medical bills, the insurer’s “rescission department” digs through the records looking for grounds to cancel the policy, often while the victim is still in the hospital. The companies say they have to do this stuff to survive in a tough business.
If you get hit by a truck automobile insurance handles it. If insurance is then canceled it is because of the driving issue that led to the accident.
The article makes it sound as if having an insurance company make a profit is a crime. This country was built on people who provide a service for profit. If companies did not make profits then they would go out of business or never start up in the first place (no motive to do so). Then government would be running everything. It is not free and taxpayers foot the bill, which is wrong. I should not have to pay for someone else’s health care (or anything else).
All of our government run medical care is in shambles. They are broke and going bankrupt. The government can only get money by taxing us and these countries with all the “free” health care are going broke.
There are plenty of free market ways to fix the problems in health care. Obama and his ilk off two, their way or doing nothing. Obama had the chance to help change things when he was in the Senate and he voted against the bills. He really cares.
As for the article, that is this person’s opinion. He is entitled to it even if it is wrong.
BD: If you get hit by a truck automobile insurance handles it.>>
DAR
No. You’re wrong. That doesn’t follow. You don’t know what you are talking about.
BD: I should not have to pay for someone else’s health care (or anything else).>>
DAR
Tell that to Blake. You’re paying for his.
BD: All of our government run medical care is in shambles.>>
DAR
Tell that to this person:
“How many here have actually worked in military medicine? The care is the best in the world, the administrative side and the costs leave little to be desired. Military medicine is a bit of a specialty of mine.”
–Big Dog, Monday Jun 15th, 2009 at 23:09
Note: “Military medicine” is “government run medical care.” Please try to remember that.
BD: They are broke and going bankrupt.>>
DAR
They are vastly more efficient than any for profit private system (which is why we took them over) and are inevitably the way of the future.
I bought this fellows book today (author of the article I linked to) since I am preparing for a lecture on this topic this weekend. He notes:
“The United States is the only developed country that relies on profit-making health insurance companies to pay for essential and elective care…. all the other developed countries have decided that basic health insurance must be a nonprofit operation.”
–The Healing of America, A global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care. Pg. 36
Private, for profit insurance (without government cost controls) are dinosaurs and will soon be gone.
Oh, and that howler you like to float about the US have the best health care in the world? He rips that one to SHREDS. Wow.
BD: The government can only get money by taxing us and these countries with all the “free” health care are going broke.>>
DAR
Again, you haven’t the foggiest idea of what you are talking about. You don’t even know where to begin (for starters, no one has “free” health care). As to who is going broke, it’s not even close.
Health Expenditure as a percentage of GDP:
(2005)
US 15.3 (now 17%)
Swiss 11.6
France 11.1
Germany 10.7
Canada 9.8
etc. Obviously, we are going broke faster, by a long shot, than any other nation. All to feed the greed.
BD: There are plenty of free market ways to fix the problems in health care.>>
DAR
Actually, they’re aren’t. Nice mantra though.
D.
———————
“But for all their problems, the other industrialized countries tend to do better than the United states on basic measures of health system performance: coverage, quality, cost control, choice. This was the most surprising and infuriating discovery of my global quest–that the US performs so poorly in this fundamental area of human life. In industry, finance, music, science, arts, academics, athletics, Americans can match or surpass any other country. Why can’t we do that when it comes to health care?” –ibid, pg. 27
Now there you go again, lying about me Darrel- something you routinely do, but atheists apparently have no qualms about lying.
I buy my own medical care, as I need it. I have never sucked off of anyone else’s medical care, nor will I, although if you care to add me to your policy, I will make an exception in your case.
I fail to see where insurance companies should not make a profit for their stockholders- this is not a hobby or charity, although there are some not- for- profit insurance carriers- use them, but do not do a Pelosi, and demonize the others for making a profit.
Who are you to judge them? To say what profit, or how much they can make ?Who the F**k does Hussein think he is?
BLK: “I have never sucked off of anyone else’s medical care,>>
DAR
You do it every minute of every day.
BLK: nor will I, although if you care to add me to your policy,>>
DAR
I already have. Your emergency comprehensive coverage is already built into the cost of the premium I pay every month. I, and everyone else who pays for insurance in America, is paying this cost for covering you.
Excerpt:
“Everyone in Japan is required to sign up with a health insurance plan. This is a “personal mandate,”…. Every nation that relies on health insurance has that requirement (except the USA), and in Japan the mandate is not controversial at all. “It’s considered an element of personal responsibility, that you insure yourself against health care costs,” Dr. Ikegami told me. “And who can be against personal responsibility?” –ibid, pg. 87
Freeloaders, that’s who.
D.
——————-
“We are the only nation in the modern industrialized world, among other free-market democracies that: 1) Doesn’t cover every citizen in their basic health care needs, 2) Has the misfortune that if you lose your job, you lose your health insurance (just when you need it the most), 3) Makes a PROFIT on the basic health care needs of its citizens, to the point where people can’t even afford it, and 4) where insurance providers/companies can CANCEL your current insurance.”
If the government mandates that we sign up then it is taking away our freedom to choose. You guys always talk about a woman’s right to choose and if the government tries to restrict abortion you all go nuts. However you have no problem telling people they MUST sign up for health care even if they do not want it.
Blake pays his own bills. While all insurance has money built in to cover those without, you are not paying for his because not one dime comes from anyone else to cover him.
I know it is tough for you to understand but it is the truth.
If you want to have that argument then I submit that i am paying for the children of other people to go to school. My kids are out of school and yet my taxes pay for schools. I should not have to do that so reduce my taxes. Better yet, I have to pay a higher premium in my insurance for substance abuse treatment and I do not use any drugs including alcohol. I am paying more so that people who abuse these things can be treated.
So if you are paying for Blake then i am paying for all kinds of things I should not have to. If you make him get health care then i want my money back for the leeches who are living off my money and sending their kids to school and from the stoners who use my premiums to pay for their addiction treatment.
Gee Darrel, thank you very much- I will use your insurance at the first opportunity. What lies-
I use NO ONE’S insurance if I see no doctor- and if I do, I pay my own way, so your BS is just that- BS.
IF, and that’s a big if- I ever have a procedure where I cannot pay, then you might be right, but first I would not be able to pay, and so far, that has not been a problem.